Purchasing Workouts

[Bobby B.]

I purchased workouts today for Hollywood from Andy Harrington - National Turf Website and
Toby Turrell - Horseplayers Pro. Race 9 at Hollywood one of them has # 6 Bel Air Sizzles with an A- workout....the other has the same workout graded C+.
Besides the money I spent, any thoughts on this subject?
Bobby B.

[km]

I tested both those services you mention + Bruno De Julio's workout daily in Today's Racing Digest and compared them to the HTR workout number (Wk). My test looked for races in which they had a definitive top ranked worker and then compared it to results with Wk number rank=1

Wasn't even close.

HTR Wk picked all the best prices and bombs and showed near flat bet profits. The 'private clocker' workout horses were universally over bet and had big losses. These guys create a lot of buzz, but little profit. They rarely had a live longshot.

Most of the time they mirrored each other. But sometimes, as in your example, they don't agree. This most likely reason comes from their experience with seeing the horse work in the past. If they kept good notes, they can recall how the horse looked previously and the grade might be a reflection of that comparison, regardless of the time of the work. One thing they are very good at = knowing which trainers work fast and those who don't, so that's another area of knowledge that makes their opinion subjective. Clockers have prejudice for and against certain barns.

Tough way to make a living. They have to be on the ball every morning 4am. Can't afford to miss a single day and have to keep meticulous records and have an excellent visual memory of body language and individual trainer methods.

We'll talk more about this at the seminar, i have a lot of experience reading those SoCal reports and compariing them to the computer data.

[Bobby B.]

Thank you.
I felt it was worth the $$$ with such a large pick 6 to compare and create more confusion
in my ticket. Is that Chaos or Kaos.
The Chief

[tomcat]

Educate yourself about the workouts at your track. Find someone who understands what is going on. Then do it yourself.

The problem with published workouts are many: Did the horse work alone or "in company", was it a gate work. Was it just a little 3f drill? How many clockers are there? Is there just one?
I watched the clockers here one morning and many times they didn't agree, but publish a consensus time. It goes on and on. I don't the people of whom you speak, but are they there every morning? Do they talk about how each horse finishes.

Get good at it, then put your money on it.

[km]

Here is another point of view from someone who emailed me, and i respect his opinion =

If it wasn’t for [clocker Harrington] Andy’s works, I would NOT bet California...
You have to read the words to Andy's workouts and then apply them to your handicapping
Grades, I don’t care about one bit and his works have paid for themselves multiple times over. It may depend on what your looking for. I want words and Not grades....

Mayo also likes to read Andy Harrington and gets benefit from the clocker appraisal.

But to illustrate my point look at Race-11 today (Sat 7/5) at HOL.
Here is key horse in the pick-6 sequence that Bobby was purchasing the Workout report for today.

Winner # 2 Hopehopehope; $21.80

This horse received clocker Andy's top grade in the race (B+) and comment: "... smart looking .. nice drill".

HTR Wk score for #2; Wk = 87+; by far the top Wk rating in this field and the horse received the only "$$" in the race as well.

Not much doubt in either case as who the workout play was. Nice call by both.

[DanG]

All information in this game can only be judged by the results you get with it. Good workout reports in the hands of one person can completely cloud their judgment while giving someone across the room an edge.

HTR is no different; I remember showing a few screens to a very serious / long term player and he thought he was reading Greek! :eek: On the contrary when I first subscribed it felt like ‘where has this been all my life?

I have access to them, but I leave that for someone else who is very artistic with interpretation. It is very interesting comparing notes however, when we talk HTR workout rating vs. these reports. There is an accumulation of conditioning that HTR recognizes that many services don’t viewing the morning in isolation.

Just as Ragozin found the horse ready to “bounce” can look tremendous in the AM thus fooling the connections, the same thing can apply when you view works without evaluating the work / race pattern imo.

(Thread starter) Bobby B had a good example with ‘Bel Air Sizzles; Her last workout grade from HTR was an “A”, (as well as one of the services) but she only received an 80 WK score, instead of the power grade of 85+.

Her 9th race in 129 days (all hard tries) and Barry Abrams decides now (after a new top) is the time to throw her to the wolves. :rolleyes: Just short sighted race spacing and typical of his approach imo. If anything she needed “less” conditioning since her last start and just maintenance gallops. There are times when a power work can be a negative and goes into the art of interpreting materials. Don’t think Eoin Harty’s crew hasn’t 2nd guessed themselves after Colonel John’s :57 and changed pre-derby move.

As Ken said; those hours the workout services work remind me of a high volume / 7 day a week breakfast restaurant. The circles under the eyes are your badge of honor. Bless those willing to put in the hours and as with all angles in gambling; if it works for you…use it.

[Bobby B.]

I reviewed the workouts I purchased yesterday with this mornings charts. I know it is only one day, but Harrington's workouts were superior to Turrell's. I would like to point out that I have been purchasing Turrell's workouts for Churchill and they have been excellent for the entire meet. Do not know who clocks the Churchill works, but perhaps it is someone to follow. Will try to find out. Glad my first real post received such interesting feedback.
Trying to obtain video of me working out which should provide plenty of feedback, including European Nations.
PEACE,
Bobby B.