Spot Play Contest Poll

[km]

Vote here to restrict the Spot Play contest entries to parameters found within the HTR Robot.

Or choose to keep the contest as it is and allow any criteria that can be found in HTR (Export).

[dehere]

I am not contributing any spot plays because I have nothing to contribute to this excellent contest - so I have nothing to gain either way.

But, since you asked, I think all spot plays should be valid - either via robot or via access. It seems the idea is to find profitable spot plays using HTR data and algorithms - why limit the process and rule out profitable plays?

[AwolAtHTR]

I agree Dehere as you said

---- It seems the idea is to find profitable spot plays using HTR data and algorithms - why limit the process and rule out profitable plays?

and Ken said:


this is an contest to stimulate ideas, please post the spot play in text format so everyone can understand the parameters


so, I think that folks who do not export the data should be given equal opportunity to find a profitable spot play. The fact that Jim, with his play, has demonstrated the power of Access may motivate some folks to learn Access and/or Excel.

The game is not just about the money but how much fun can you have solving the problem.

By allowing ONLY the Robot, then all HTR users will have the opportunity to play some more and have some (more) fun tinkering with the Robot.

duane

PS: hmm as of this posting, poll is 2 and 2, and we have HALF the voters posting, one from each side of the fence!!

so, if YOU want to be decision '..your way..' then vote

Yes, I will accept losing but let us see some votes!!

[DanG]

My two cents…

Not a level playing field either way.

The player who only uses Access and the player who never does are both disadvantaged in a vote. Split the prize money, one each for each approach as both are using HTR data.

In sheer processing time alone the Access player has the edge, not to mention massive back fitting capabilities.

Either way, this contest has stimulating many good ideas.

Just stumbling on a good eliminator has been worth the efforts. (Last two years>) Combining K-9 with nFC=65 and you only have to bet 27,500 horses to cash 425 bets for a whopping $0.42 cents at 1.6%. :eek:

[MVM]

I think for this contest alone, you have to keep the rules as originally stated (Access or Robot).

I think a great idea for a future contest would be to have split divisions..Access and Robot.
But there is a change I would make in the scoring....I think the winner should be the highest score from Plays X Return.

For instance, a 2000 play angle that returns $.15 ($300), beats a 600 play angle that returns $.49 ($294). Seems a truer test.

[MikeDee]

1. I want to thank Ken for holding the contest. It was a very nice gesture on his part to have a contest in the dead of winter when nothing much is going on. This is free, no entry fee at all.

2. The rules were clear when the contest started that any method was acceptable, I don't know why a rule change is even being discussed at this late stage in this contest.

3. If you didn't like the rules you should have spoke up immediately at the outset of the contest, not at this point.

4. I think we should all take a longer view as some have already mentioned. Normally in any contest the only one who benefits is the winner, but in this contest we all can benefit from the published spot plays by using them outright or incorporating their fundamentals into our own handicapping methods. So even if you don't do spot plays and didn't come up with the winner you can benefit from it.

5. The robot is an excellent tool and my hats off to Ken for making it available, but it is simply not possible to hard program all of the possible variations and permutations that one can test with a data base and a query language

6. If you agree with 4 and 5 above then why would you want to limit the imagination, creativity, and the potential for the publication of a "real" advantage that is only available to the HTR brethren, by not allowing Db mining to be part of a spot play contest?

I'l get off my soap box now and go back to the salt mine and try to find a query that can beat NJ and his 1.62 ROI:D

[Mark]

I voted for Robot and Access and was pleased to see that option was in the lead. It would be a shame to change the rules everyone accepted at the outset.

The Robot is so well designed, for me anyway it tempers any desire to learn Access. I see the shortcomings in that, and "hats off" to anyone utilizing both.

[AwolAtHTR]

----
6. If you agree with 4 and 5 above then why would you want to limit the imagination, creativity, and the potential for the publication of a "real" advantage that is only available to the HTR brethren, by not allowing Db mining to be part of a spot play contest?

I'l get off my soap box now and go back to the salt mine and try to find a query that can beat NJ and his 1.62 ROI:D

Yes, Mike, I agree with 4 and 5.

What prompted this poll for a rule change was Jim, the contest leader, offered to withdraw his leading play and as you said '...the only one who benefits is the winner...'. Well, I thought that Jim's offer was very reasonable and suggested the rule change. THEN, Ken, decided to have this poll (refer post # 102 of Contest thread).

I posted my original vote on the contest thread (# 101), so I will not repeat, or copy that to this posting.

I think the two divisions is a great idea for a future HTR Spot Play contest.

duane

[njcurveball]

What prompted this poll for a rule change was Jim, the contest leader, offered to withdraw his leading play and as you said '...the only one who benefits is the winner...'.


OH BOY! PLEASE do not say I prompted this poll. I simply replied back to the negative feelings I received after taking the lead.

You would think I put in a query that cheated somehow. Using things like taking the square root of the horses saddle diamater! I used vanilla factors and shared a highly profitable angle with the group. ANYONE with HTR can use it. Variations of it has been profitable for 10 our of 12 months! You could simply get the possible plays with the robot and then verify using the program. That WAS in the spirit of the contest.

IF I had shared a few Energy queries where you needed to compute a MUV number, and the horse who had the highest, then compare a horses total energy with projected lengths behind to generate contenders, and then rank those contenders. Well you get the idea, then pretty much no one could easily duplicate it, yet it would have been within the "letter of the law", since the data is IN the export.

Bottom line was that I was trying to pour sand on a few sparks before it turned into a raging fire. I have gained so much by reading other Users ideas. Why would anyone want to limit those ideas? I love the robot, but it is not the final answer for my selections. I think anyone who wins would agree that even if a spot play is profitable, the race still needs to be handicapped. You can catch many juicy trifectas and superfectas using longshot spot plays 3rd and 4th in your tickets.

I do not think Ken expected something so positive (his generous offer) to turn into something so negative (everyone trying to change the rules to fit his money into their own ideas).

The $500 is not going to change my life and I do not expect the 62% to win anyway. I was hoping to read more plays and gather more ideas which are worth more than $500 to me. However, since I tried to pour sand on the sparks, not a single spot play has been logged. So now I feel like I should speak up, rather than sit back and have other people try to put words in my mouth.

I am not carrying the torch for ANY contest changes. I was just trying to get along and retain the spirit of the BBS. Which is we are all in this together. Ken said the contest is to stimulate ideas, I dont think he meant those ideas should bash him or other members of this group!

Now if someone else wants to put up the money, they certainly can make the rules. You know the thing about HE WHO HAS THE GOLD.

NEVER in my wildest dreams did I think sharing such a profitable spot play would cause so much complaining and discension.

Jim

[DanG]

Using things like taking the square root of the horses saddle diamater!
Jim
Jim!

You gave away my favorite method!!! :D

Jim, you haven’t caused any dissension whatsoever. This contest has been a win-win all around. I wrote Ken early on about a possible access / robot scenario that might play out and while I normally don’t share private email I think it universally applies here. Ken wrote back “Regardless, the purpose of the contest is to stimulate new ideas and to that end I believe it will be a success”.

Hard to argue that hasn’t been the case.

As far as no one turning in a play since your 62% monster I think it’s a combination of a busy weekend (in my case) and a few HTR veterans trying to time the finish line ala Eddie Delahoussaye.

BTW: As you stated and Mike (MVM) before you, many of us have created custom fields using access that would be very powerful if allowed in this contest. If anyone feels Access is allowing anything outside of straight HTR data they are mistaken, there are some very strong applications if you export all the data HTR has to offer.

You have already far surpassed the spot plays I use in live play. But, as you know there are great velocity angles that are not “easily duplicated” so they are not admissible.

Bottom line…As Mike Dee, yourself and many others have said. What a great gesture Ken has made taking the chill off winter and offering this no fee contest.

Keep us informed Jim, your writing and imagination always contributes greatly to all of us.

[MikeDee]

I don't think there are enough contenders to have 2 divisions. My guess is that there are only a half dozen or so data base players.

[jhilden]

Since the rules did not state the spot play had to originate from the robot, I vote to allow export -access. I have to admit, the $500 prize made me invest some time into finding the best spot play. I think the parameters of the contest, like having a minimum of 600 plays really makes the brain work and forces you to be creative; especially with the target ROI jumping above $1.60.

For the contest, I will still attempt finding a great play. After the contest is over, I will still try to find the best spot play. As to the $500 prize, I already won double that using the spot plays posted in the threads:D ! Plus, the knowledge gained from the contest - you cannot put a price on that.

[km]

Status Quo - this thread is closed.

Contest continues with open rules and NJ stays in the lead.

Excellent comments everyone - thank you.

Best $500 i ever spent on marketing!